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F15 10k Tournament fleet 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:27 pm
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Starficz wrote:
Three1415, your fleet has REALLY pushed me to my limits. Either I beat Fury 30 or your fleet... or I can beat both 60% of the time... Bah, got to keep testing I guess.


Alas, you may force me to reclaim the P used in some of the Behemoth's surface protrusions; I suppose you implemented mobile ships of your own with that 800 P you had? Hmm...I believe I know what I must add...


Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:34 pm
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:55 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Well, I have something now which consitently beats Virus, Turbine, Behemoth (Turbine by points, Virus and Behemoth by fleetkill), and most of the other fleets posted here. Still sometimes loses by points to MonsPubis' swarms and Camo's Fury 30 though (depends on spawn positions and RNG; I lose if there are a few ships left chasing my fighters and thus not getting nuked). Debating on whether or not I want to post it.


Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:28 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Upgraded a little more. Still always beats all the other trollnuke fleets and most of the others, but now it also consistently wins against Fury 30 and has a better than 50% winrate against Mons' swarms (pure RNG against those). Only thing is it now sometimes loses to Kieve's Warhawk 24 - not quite sure why. Kind of at a loss as to how to improve it further though; seems like anything else I can do weakens it against one fleet or another.


Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:56 am
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Owlfeathers0117 wrote:
Upgraded a little more. Still always beats all the other trollnuke fleets and most of the others, but now it also consistently wins against Fury 30 and has a better than 50% winrate against Mons' swarms (pure RNG against those). Only thing is it now sometimes loses to Kieve's Warhawk 24 - not quite sure why. Kind of at a loss as to how to improve it further though; seems like anything else I can do weakens it against one fleet or another.


I'd feel better about that if I was actually using WH-24.
I have the sinking feeling that when the time actually comes, Warhawk fleet is gonna get wiped out a lot. I don't fear F8 or F15 fleets, troll-nukes are virtually no threat (except Turbine's weaponless decoys, I can't un-break AI there), but Fury 30 and Machete typically decimate it and even Bird of Prey was a significant threat. Camo's Scorpion rebuild is probably going to end up being a "classic" brawler design as well - I wouldn't be surprised to see it added in with the F4 test ships officially.

I'm curious to see your fleet, Owl, but I understand if you don't feel like showing your hand before the actual matches.


Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:06 am
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Camo5 wrote:
I tried many different iterations between all the various layouts, and it turns out that 8 shot boosters is the perfect number.

The problem, though, is how much regen you give it. Too little, and it wants to ram everything. Too much, and it runs from everything (I'm still looking for the amount that makes it just overpower its counterthrust so it doesn't suck itself into enemy trolls)


How do you get them to aim properly?!
I've tested so many different designs, ranging from 1400p snipers to 3500p armored brawlers, but no matter what fleet loadout I go with, your Fury and Scorpion rebuilds both have an accuracy level that absolutely blows my mind. I give my ships range, maneuverability, damage, and it doesn't seem to matter because they can't shoot straight to save their flimsy glass-cannon lives, and they end up as smoking debris.

I need your insight here, badly. What dark sorcery are you working over there?


Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:57 pm
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I move thrusters around and test until they stop smashing into everything. They still can't aim how I want them to, but for some strange reason, there seems to be a sweet spot with the right amount of firepower and regen, but I don't have time to determine what it is atm.

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Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:11 pm
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I find balanced thrusters seem to work better .. with maybe one or two extras on the corner. Gives better strafing I think.

For example, on the side of a ship, I might have four across and two high. Then put one extra thruster on the two edge ones.

I'm not explaining it well, but if this was the ship and X were thrusters:

Code:
        X  X
        XXXX
        XXXX
     XXX____XXX
      XX____XX
      XX____XX
     XXX____XXX

      front end ... pew, pew



.... or maybe it's Barney. I don't know.

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Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:03 pm
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Fury 30 is 95% identical to Fury 29.
Fury 29 derps out at the beginning of a match, faces sideways, and waits until point-blank practically to shoot.
Fury 30 aims right at the target and blows it away.

10x Sparrowhawk-D vs 5x Fury 30
Sparrowhawks derp out and give Fury 30s their broadsides.
Fury 30's lay down coordinated patterns of overlapping fire and cut the fleet down to half or less.

Fury 23's are 95% identical to Fury 30 (extended length for superior range, large Protectors front & rear to cover longer profile).
3x F23's, 3x SH-D's vs 5x Fury 30
The 23's charge in to point-blank range and get cut to shreds, despite having LONGER range on their guns.
The SH-D's exhibit their usual pattern of "sniping distance without firing" and in multiple cases I've seen them literally turn their asses to the enemy for no discernible reason. They don't attempt to run away, they're just like "Here, let me bend over and drop my shields for you. Give it to me hard!"

I'm at my wit's end here. Obviously my designs don't suck, because Camo keeps tweaking them and making God-tier fleet-obliterators out of them, whereas everything I build raw seems cursed by GIR-level Moron AI. I'm ready to just put Warhawk up here wholesale and beg someone to purge whatever retarded Ghost is inhabiting their shell.


Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:26 pm
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Some of the trouble is based on which targets the AI chooses.
I was having trouble with one fleet because all or most of the ships would target one ship and chase it down while ignoring all the other ships shooting at them.
When they act like headless chickens, thrusters can only do so much.


I was having a lot of trouble with Camo's Fury 30 ships, so I copied them and made em betterer. :)

I won't be sending those ships to the tournament though. That would be not cool.
Instead, I sent something nowhere near as good just because I thought it was interesting. :)

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Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:25 pm
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I made some revisions to the fleet I'd submitted earlier, figure there's not much more harm I can do now in posting Warhawk as it was previously.
Attachment:
Warhawk_Fleet10k.lua.gz [7.73 KiB]
Downloaded 187 times

Most everything posted after Bird of Prey manages to wipe the floor with it anyway. The lighter Goshawks were meant to survive swarms by outrunning / evading them, but I only managed about a 50% win-rate against INCOM that way. Mons' PPB swarm wasn't much of a threat despite the numbers, due to the added weight of the adapter struts.

The bare-bones Wrathball still managed to catch and devour them on a regular basis however.
Attachment:
Wrathball_Swarm.gz [2.41 KiB]
Downloaded 169 times


I probably spent too much time worrying about swarms this time around, but I'm sick of fighting with uncooperative AI at this point, so from here on out I'm just sitting back to see how things shake out.


Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:08 pm
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